34 | Alvin Yuan, Optimising Healthcare Costs for All

My guest today is Alvin Yuan. Alvin is the Founder & CEO of HealthMetrics. A next-generation employee healthcare platform for companies to manage their employee healthcare benefits holistically & seamlessly with process automation, live dashboards, data analytics, self-service employee mobile app & crafted wellness programs.

In this conversation, we cover the startup scene regarding healthcare, ASEAN-specific healthcare problems, and what it’s like running a startup.

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Alvin Yuan.

Show Notes:

[00:00:31] – [First question] – Background
[00:02:04] – Why go into startups?
[00:02:55] – How hard is it running a healthcare startup?
[00:04:13] – What is HealthMetrics
[00:08:10] – Where do you even start as a tech healthcare startup
[00:10:00] – Balancing stakeholders and current problems?
[00:14:18] – Hiring at a startup
[00:19:35] – ASEAN healthcare problems?
[00:23:34] – Closing round of questions

Connect with Alvin:

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Kalani Scarrott (00:31): Perfect. Alvin, Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it, but, yeah, maybe just we’ll start, we’ll start small. And can you just gimme a background sketch maybe your life and then we’ll dive into the details from there.

Alvin Yuan (00:42): Okay. So born and bred in Malaysia. So grew up all my life over here, live a pretty normal life, to be honest. Uh, but I think life has been really a roller coaster. Right, right. Uh, especially, you know, once I hit the crossroads of, you know, hitting, you know, my university days where, you know, a lot of people are confused then like, okay, what should I do? Right. Like, that’s gonna be the determining, you know, site of my life. Like that’s gonna, what I’m gonna be doing for the next 30 years or so. Right. Um, and so the, there’s a fun fact here. So I graduated as a pharmacist, right. So I was in the medical line. Uh, but I never practiced. Right. So I decided to, okay, you know what, I don’t think this is for me, even though I spent four years, you know, grad, you know, studying graduating pharmacist, never really got there. Uh, eventually went to, you know, healthcare insurance, employee benefits, healthcare management, which is sort of related, but not really in the pharmacy vertical. Uh, and from there on dabble on a few things in regards to that, and started my life as a startup founder, which is where the rollercoaster actually started. Right. So, that, that was about seven years ago and, you know, and that journey has been going on for, for, up to today. And, yeah.

Kalani Scarrott (01:57): So yeah, just why startups, like, and why healthcare startups like yeah. How do you make that? Because that’s a big jump. So how do you, how do you get stuck into it?

Alvin Yuan (02:04): Yeah, so I, I think everything is probably accidental, just like everything else in life. Right. So, for me, I was already in the healthcare industry, saw that there was an opportunity to solve, a huge problem, especially in, in healthcare. Uh, never knew of the firm startup until I was in a startup kind of thing. Right. I thought you, I always thought about, you know, this, okay. It’s, it’s a company I’m starting a company with my co-founder we’re solving problems. Uh, and, and that’s where the, the kind of, you know, exposure for us to really be able to go into this world that, you know, what, things can be solved faster if you can do this, hyper growth, you know, in the fundraising. So, it’s really more of that kind of trajectory that really got us. Uh, it was really accidental, I would say, we just wanted to start a company, then it actually became a startup. And, you know, we are where we are today.

Kalani Scarrott (02:55): I’ve got a very limited background in healthcare. I did a few years after I turned 18 just with, with phlebotomy and stuff. But how hard for you has healthcare been to crack into cuz it’s pretty complex? It’s, it’s highly regulated, plenty of old established players. Like how do you go about changing?

Alvin Yuan (03:08): Yeah. Um, I won’t lie. It’s definitely hard. Right. I think compared to a lot of other industries, like you mentioned healthcare it’s, it’s not just H O right. Uh, and also, you know, heavy regulations, there’s actually a lot of power players inside healthcare. Now, most of the bigger, industries, like, like, like pharma’s or hospitals, they are really, really huge, right. Billion dollar industries. Uh, and it’s actually very, very hard to change, change that. So for us, what we did was we didn’t want to go heavy and very general, right. So we, we ended up choosing a vertical instead to really want to solve. Right. And that was really more on the healthcare financing vertical, right. Rather than solving, you know, stuff on the diagnosis side, on the pharma side, you know, we actually ended up saying that, you know what, there’s actually a big problem in healthcare financing side as well. Uh, that, that’s how we actually got into it. And we slowly snowballed, you know, into where we are today by working with the right people and being able to use the right kind of leverage to then influence the rest of the other, you know, stakeholders as well.

Kalani Scarrott (04:13): So yeah, I’ve, I’ve read a bit about health metrics and you’ve stated the mission is to optimize healthcare costs for all. So for a total healthcare noob, like what aspects are right for organization and what are you trying to shake up, I guess?

Alvin Yuan (04:24): Right. Uh, so maybe I’ll just explain a little bit about what health metrics actually does. Right. So, so that, that will give a lot of context to things. So for us, we are right now, B 2 B health care startup, right? Uh, that we actually built platforms for companies to manage their employee health benefits efficiently by directly connecting them to stakeholders, such as healthcare providers and insurance companies, and also other wellness and, you know, health type of, of, companies as well. So why did we do this here is because we realized that that, that there was actually a lot of issues when it comes to, trying to manage costs, as there were a lot of parties involved, right? So previously for companies, when they like to really, you know, get a health insurance plan for their, for their employees, what happens here is they gotta work with the broker.

The broker’s gotta work with the insurance company, the insurance company gotta work with the hospital, like, like there’s a long chain of events. Right. And, and there’s a lot of these inefficiencies there as well. So for us, we decided to say that, okay, why don’t we give power back to the companies where they can actually choose not just to, you know, buy insurance, but to self fund their benefits program as well. That’s where they get the most savings by getting this platform to be connected to everyone. Uh, you know, in the ecosystem, healthcare providers will be connected to our ecosystem insurance companies connected to our ecosystem, and they’ll be able to make any form of changes that they like into the platform, which then gets translated in, in real time to all the stakeholders. And there any, let’s say claims that happen, right?

All this data gets transferred back to the companies as well, rather than being blindsided by all these other, you know, intermediaries in the middle, so that’s generally in a nutshell what health metrics is doing. So in terms of what we’re trying to optimize, right. Uh, you know, following on, on that, what we realize here is companies don’t actually have a lot of choice when it comes to really deploying their employee health plans. So a lot of it is being controlled by insurance companies. Now I’m not bashing insurance companies, that’s just how it works, right? So it’s like, they give you insurance policy and there’s not much you can do in it. It’s like plan A plan B plan C that’s about it. Right. So, and there isn’t a lot of flexibility to it as well. So for us, we, we know that, you know, in order for us to be able to make sure that, that there is more flexibility, we are, we actually created this platform for them to then make all those rules and decisions that they need on the platform and pull out those things that they can self fund themselves.

So right now we are one of the only hybrid platforms probably in the market. Uh, I cannot say for sure, we are the only ones. So what happens here is they will be able to then design, let’s just say for outpatient programs, the GPs, the dentals and whatnot, they can actually self fund those programs. And it’s actually much cheaper for them to do so. And in terms of, let’s just say that, they like to deploy employee benefits for hospitalization. They can then use an insurance and everything gets connected. So whenever they upload information of employees on our platform, all this information gets disseminated out. So in terms of optimizing healthcare costs, we can then influence decision making from the healthcare providers, like as much as negotiate on behalf with the insurance companies that look, you know, these guys would like to create a plan this way that could actually result in better premium pricing. And thus, we are trying to optimize healthcare, spending across board by giving power back to the payers. know it’s a mouthful, so it’s like a <laugh> so complex.

Kalani Scarrott (08:10): No, but that’s, that’s interesting though, because like, I’m going back here. How do you even start? Because I don’t know if you’re a tech founder, you might start with an app or a website, but for you guys, what started first? How do you even go about it? Yeah. What was first, what was the first beginnings? Like, I guess,

Alvin Yuan (08:23): Uh, I think beginnings are always the most difficult, right? Uh, as a platform, the chicken and egg situation will always exist. Right. Because, it’s like, you gotta get some people on the platform before another party comes in. Right. So now without healthcare providers or insurance companies, companies cannot really utilize our service. Right. So we, we started off the journey by getting healthcare providers on board and tell them that look, we have a platform that we are able to connect you directly to the, the, the companies without a need for insurance company to be involved because a lot of them right now would like to deploy their employee benefits in a way by self-funding right. So I’m channeling traffic. And that’s where we actually got our first few believers when it comes to healthcare providers. Uh, and from there on it kind of snowball, right?

The more healthcare providers we have on the platform, then companies would say that, hey, you know what, this is a service that I can get, get behind, I can use. Right. And that, that’s where they actually start coming in. And from there, when we have built a significant volume, we were able to then use this to also speak to insurance companies, which are giants in the industry, right. To tell them that look, we have companies that would like to do, and also purchase insurance, but using this method, right. Like for us to be able to negotiate on behalf. And that’s where the ecosystem starts, piecing together one by one. Right. Uh, and, and, like I said, rollercoaster, right. Hasn’t been an easy journey, but you know, I’m glad we, we, we are where we are today.

Kalani Scarrott (09:53): Oh man. You, yeah. Just like the so many things go going on. You’re juggling everything. Aye. <laugh>

Alvin Yuan (09:57): Yes. That’s true.

Kalani Scarrott (09:59): So how many different stakeholders do you have to juggle ? There’s insurers, there’s the companies themselves?

Alvin Yuan (10:03): There’s the healthcare providers as well. Uh, and, so today just giving you some numbers, right. Uh, we are connecting more than a thousand companies with 250,000, you know, employees, right. Connecting them over to 5,000 healthcare providers already on our platform, with more than six insurance companies. So it’s like, it’s like a, a balance of sorts that, you know, and, and it’s a positive feedback loop. So the more customers we have, the more healthcare providers come on board and the more healthcare providers come on board customers will also want to use this. Right. So it’s like a positive, you know, network effect,

Kalani Scarrott (10:36): Getting that snowball rolling. Yeah. Yeah.

Alvin Yuan (10:38): That’s right. That’s right.

Kalani Scarrott (10:39): Yeah. So now you’ve got some direction and, and you’re sort of moving along. What’s the biggest hurdle, I guess you’re facing, like, what’s the one thing that you just like, I wish I could just get rid of that or change.

Alvin Yuan (10:48): Right. Uh, so many, right. I think when it comes to healthcare, there’s so many. Right. Uh, but in terms of, of the top, I would say, I, I, I think it’s something that is necessary, but regulations, is never really a problem, but that’s also where the problem lies, right. Because, in terms of digital tech today, especially in our part of the world, Southeast Asia, it’s still very gray. It’s very vague, nothing is a yes or nothing is a no. So there’s always this risk where, you know, everything gets clammed down and then we are declared illegal. Right. And even, and then part of the things that we are trying to do here is also trying to work with regulators to, to then say that, okay, how can we manage, you know, data more proficiently, right? How can we actually then transfer this certain forms of information across both that is advantageous that can ultimately save costs?

Right. So, and, and a lot of times when we actually speak to the authorities, and they, they don’t know how to view us. Right. Uh, they’re like, I’ll give you an example, ministry of health, you know, in every jurisdiction and country typically only, manages like healthcare providers. If you’re providing a healthcare service directly, you are under ministry of health. Right. Uh, but for us, we are partnering with healthcare providers that provide healthcare services. Then the question is, where do we lie then? Right. Uh, but, but we are, are we processing healthcare data? We are, right. So there’s, there’s a lot of this kind of things that, that we feel that can be better. And we already get open to, to work together if necessary, but this has always been probably the, the pain when it comes to, you know, healthcare startups, or even probably, you know, healthcare companies in general.

Kalani Scarrott (12:29): Yeah. Damn. I’m trying to think, how do you even solve that? Like, is it just,

Alvin Yuan (12:33): <laugh>, it’s just there, right. It’s just there and, <laugh> never easy to solve, but do we want to solve it? Of course, we like to be able to engage, you know, stakeholders more to be able to solve this.

Kalani Scarrott (12:45): Yeah. Yeah. And to go back when you first, the chicken and egg problem with getting providers and companies on board, you, you sort of self describe as a bit of an introvert I read. So how do you even get them to get on board in the first place? How hard you find it?

Alvin Yuan (12:56): Yeah. So, I actually thought that, being an introvert kind of helped in, in my journey. So, in a way where, so, so what I realized was being in a B2B type of business where I’m not selling directly to consumers, that actually led me to think that, you know, I was actually even more comfortable thinking about it because, a lot of the conversations were more formal, formal in the sense where, okay, I, I only need to focus on the problem. I’m selling you a solution. Uh, there are kinds of relationship selling as well, but there, it isn’t as much as you when you go B to C. Right? So, in a way I found, I found this zone of comfort, where I know for a fact where I’m going in, I’m solving a problem for you. And if you do find value in it and you feel like you wanna use it, then that’s where we struck the deal. Right. So I, I kind actually got into that zone of selling in a form of manner that I know how to there wasn’t really a fine, to it in general. Right. So for me, it’s, it’s really that journey that really helped me to learn that, you know, even as an introvert, I can do this. If let’s just say I do it in a way where I know how to do it, <laugh> if it makes sense.

Kalani Scarrott (14:08): No, I couldn’t agree more. It’s exactly that podcast. I, I chat and I ask questions, but I can’t do this on the fly. I just know how to do this little thing.

Alvin Yuan (14:15): <laugh>, that’s true. That’s true.

Kalani Scarrott (14:17): Um, so like another different hat and another thing you juggle is obviously hiring and in regards to a startup and it’s just, yeah. All things go. How do you manage that? And what do you look for when you’re hiring people? Um, and just what’s that whole process, like, I guess?

Alvin Yuan (14:32): Right. Uh, you know, find founding a startup is like, like I said, I can’t say it’s easy, but I can’t say it’s hard in a way, because there’s just so many challenges, evolve. Right. Uh, I think as you rightly mentioned about hiring as well, it’s constantly something that is evolving. I won’t say that it’s, it’s always challenging, but, at, at different stages of the company, right. Uh, that exist different challenges for us when it comes to hiring. Right. Uh, and, and, when it comes to hiring for us, we actually really wanted to experiment and try something new. Uh, I, I, and I also believe that COVID has, in a way helped us accelerated it. So previously, you know, we were actually very Malaysia based in a sense where, we were very localized, right. We can only look for people to come into the office and it has to be a certain area, if not, this guy lives too far, right.

Or this, this person lives too far. It’s so hard for, for this person to, to get office and, and really work effectively. Right. So right now we are already consciously moving towards a remote first concept to be able to really expand our talent pool, to be able to then, you know, tap on the global talent on that sense. And because we are tech enabled company, I mean, we are a tech company, ultimately. So it is really, good for us to practice what we preach. Right. So, so in a sense, we are moving towards this where we can actually right now manage people on in terms of a remote basis. And that has really helped us shorten the gap, but there are still, roles that we need locally, which needs local office. So today we are in two countries, Malaysia, Singapore, we’re going to a third country within the next few months. Uh, and this frameworks are all shaping together and it’s actually very important for us to be able to, you know, do this.

Kalani Scarrott (16:16): Yeah. Any unexpected problems pop up with remote hiring, like anything you didn’t foresee, I guess.

Alvin Yuan (16:21): Um, I think it’s always hard to be able to judge like characters or work, work styles, when it comes to, you know, interviewing someone remotely. Right. I mean, you know, it, it is always harder as well because we tend to need to shift our mindset, previously it’s really about how can we actually work together, you know, remotely, and have meetings and, and, and, you know, expect people to be on time and things like that. Right. So we eventually, instead of trying to, to, shift the mindset of the person working, remotely, we are actually shifting our own mindsets. We are actually asking ourselves, how can we do this better? Uh, how can we actually then measure results rather, rather than measure time. Right. So, and we are also moving towards like communicating asynchronously, asynchronously means like, you know what, it doesn’t matter which time zone you’re in. It has to be posted in a way where I’m not expecting you to reply me right now kind of thing. Right. Yeah. So that, that’s really how it is.

Kalani Scarrott (17:21): Ah, perfect. And if you could go all the way back to the start, you’re just founding the company. Is there anything you’d tell yourself, like what not to do? Like what would you just totally avoid any big don’ts?

Alvin Yuan (17:34): You know, this is actually such a big question, right? That, that, to be very honest, I find this question interesting, because if I were to know, I probably won’t start the company at all. Right. It’s like, there’s just so much hurdles and, you know, as you cross along the way. Right. So, so it, it it’s something that, that, you know, I, I always think about, but at the same time, rather than knowing what it is, cause the list just so long, right. Uh, I, I actually kinda appreciate, you know, us being very naive back then thinking that we can start the company and conquer overall kind of, kind of thing. Uh, and actually being able to solve problems as it comes along. Uh, and this actually holds true till today because even today, I don’t know everything. Right. So in a way, today, whatever I’m doing, as I say, I’m managing a hundred employees, right. Uh, tomorrow I’ll be, is the first time I’ll be managing 101 employees, 102, 105 going to a new country. Right. So that’s really this, how, what I think, I, I, I would do it all over again, not knowing anything, you know, even, even if you gimme the chance.

Kalani Scarrott (18:39): Do you have any mentors or people giving you advice on people that you lean on?

Alvin Yuan (18:42): Yes. Yes, definitely. I, I think we are only where we are today because of all the help that we were able to get. So it is what, it was actually pretty weird because, for us, we always thought like, okay, we are entrepreneur. We gotta like, just figure this out ourselves. Right. And, what we realized here was, there’s actually a big community out there of mentors that are just willing to be able to provide this kind of information and also help because they feel like they have also been helped before. Right. And they’re just giving back. It’s like a, it’s like a loop as well. Now it makes us also have this feeling like, okay, you know, what, whatever we learn, it’s time to give back as well. Right. So, there was a lot of networks that we actually relied on. There was this local startup networks. Uh, we also actually joined Google accelerator programs as well. Uh, there’s also endeavor network we are actually part of where they really have a full range of experienced mentors that even help us up to today.

Kalani Scarrott (19:35): Maybe just touch on the ASEAN region specifically. Is there anything, like any problems that are more prominent there, do you think, like, are there any problems unique to the ASEAN region in healthcare financing and cost do you reckon?

Alvin Yuan (19:46): I think ASEAN itself is very unique already, right? So, the culture itself, I think this is true, not just for healthcare startups, but every other startup or every other company is trying to penetrate into the region. Right. Uh, the culture, the language, how things are being actually done in those countries, right. Uh, will always remain like a mystery of black box until we unravel it. So, I think the, the challenges are all like you pretty similar, when it comes to the ASEAN region, and the partners, the culture, you know, how they work is all the same, is all different, right. In, in that sense. And, and when it comes to regulations as well, that will probably also be one of our biggest hurdles. Uh, just like what you’re facing over here in Malaysia, both Singapore, right. Uh, it’s also something that we need to unravel.

We need to find out where there are, what we are doing, Is it legal? Uh, is it the right thing to do? And sometimes it’s not easy, especially in the ASEAN region where everything is so, you know, scattered, right? Like you, you wanna get this information, you gotta look for this department, you gotta do this and, and that, and different departments. And that’s our experience so far. And, and, it’s never easy, but it’s rewarding because, once you’re able to solve this, right, it becomes in a way, a very high barrier of entry. Right. So not anyone can just compete and come in and do the same thing, because you have already done all the groundwork to be able, be able to make sure that you can do it. Right. So it’s like a high risk, high reward play when it comes to ASEAN in general. That’s just generally how I feel.

Kalani Scarrott (21:18): Yeah. I love it. And in regards to, I hope I’m not out of line saying this, but Malaysia and Singapore, same, same, but different. But then the third country, you don’t have to mention the what country, but how do you, how hard has that been, that third country been going into, and is it, do you go through local partners? Um, yeah. Maybe just walk me through it.

Alvin Yuan (21:36): Yeah. So we actually have a few countries already line up. Uh, so for, for Singapore itself, we went in organically, right. Because, like you said, same thing, but different. The, the difference is actually sometimes not huge because Malaysia and Singapore share a lot of, history together, the language, the culture, how, it’s, how it actually all works. Uh, it’s also pretty similar as well. Uh, we have healthcare providers and also companies that exist in both Malaysia and Singapore also does this kind of relationship going, right? So, so we decided to actually go into Singapore organically where we can set up our base there and we just carry over what we have learned over here, you know, to implement over there as well, and being able to support over, but going to a new country. Uh, there’s actually multiple ways. We, we are actually looking into working with local partners that has experience in the similar vertical as us that can actually leverage off our technology at the same time for us to leverage off their experience and also network, that they have built as well. So this kind of synergy is, is actually very, very good, is very synergistic for both companies to be able to work on this journey because for us going to new countries like that, it’s definitely very resource heavy as much as for the same local partner to build tech like ours. Right. It’s also resourcing. So we kinda like marrying the best of both worlds, you know, when we actually expand in that, in that manner.

Kalani Scarrott (23:01): Yeah. Perfect. And maybe to wrap up with, yeah, health metrics, is there anything that we haven’t talked about that’s consequential about the future, do you think?

Alvin Yuan (23:10): I think for health metrics, we’re very, very excited with, with being able to shape how healthcare, especially in the healthcare financing scene, right. That this can actually turn out to be, with so much kind of healthcare innovations out there. And us also being pushed to the forefront to actually influence this kind of decisions. Right. Uh, we are very, definitely very, very excited to be able to be part of this, journey for a very long time to come. Uh, we’re probably not gonna just stop in these three countries. We’re definitely gonna probably go to even more and see how we can actually marry all of this together.

Kalani Scarrott (23:44): So for you personally, like is, what do you think is the most undervalued life experience that maybe university age students don’t give weight to? So like, what do you think is an underrated skill or an experience that you think a lot of people should have?

Alvin Yuan (23:55): Right. Uh, so looking back today, maybe I’ll just use myself back as an example. So, so I actually look back and I kind of actually have, regrets in a way where I didn’t start off a lot of things earlier. There was always this kind of mental block where, you know what, I gotta wait for me to finish my degree and only I, I can actually start something or start learning something else and whatnot. Right. So, and I think the most undervalued thing right now is I feel like, people can actually do so much more, even when they’re actually in that, you know, zone where people tell them you’re too young, you have no experience and stuff like that. You know, I, I, I think never limit yourself or have that kind of mental block, right. That, that is stopping you from learning a new skill kind of thing. Right. So I think this needs to be told through and through to a lot of people, rather than just having a narrow tunnel vision of focusing on what you’re supposed to be studying right now, you know, explore right. The, the, the world is just so big, you know.

Kalani Scarrott (24:53): Do you have any, or maybe just to follow up on that, how do you think maybe people get out of that mindset and start branching out? Is it just a slow burn type thing or ?

Alvin Yuan (25:02): Right, Uh, I think the world that we live in today is just so different, right? Uh, I think last time for, for us to get new information and to get new people, as a community was so much harder, today the world is so different where, you know, information is like overload, right. You know, people can actually learn all sorts of things online. They can self study, and there’s so much community based things happening right now. And sometimes go on this course, right. There’s just so many communities that is teaching each other stuff. And then, and I think that that is actually something that, that is how we start. Right. You find areas of interest you actually go to. It’s never a, no, I see a lot of people doing what they have actually not studied very successfully. And there’s always a continuous learning because they kind of overcompensate for it. So it’s really more of a mindset change rather than where do I start kind of change. Right.

Kalani Scarrott (25:55): Yeah. That’s what I mean. And no one starts an expert, you sort of learn on the job. So…

Alvin Yuan (25:58): That’s true. <laugh>

Kalani Scarrott (26:00): Have you had any books maybe that have been influential in shaping your worldview?

Alvin Yuan (26:04): Yeah, various actually. Um, so when I was, yeah, I was almost graduating. Uh, my dad actually passed me this book. Uh, it was actually a very random location. I think he just kind of like this book out of nowhere, he saw the book, Hey, you know what? This book is good. Right. Because he actually read it a lot of years ago. Then he randomly just passed me and just, okay, son, you just read this book, it’s going to help you with your life. Right. And I just randomly picked it up and I, I read it and yes, it did change my life because I just gone through it. And then it is great. And it actually helped me shape my mindset today. Uh, and the title of book was actually think and grow rich by Napoleon Hill. It’s a very famous book. Apparently I didn’t even know it back then. Uh, but it’s actually a book that really helped me shape my mindset to do something more than what I am or what I’ve actually studied.

Kalani Scarrott (26:57): So if you were 18 today starting university again, or like, where do you think the biggest opportunities lie? If like, if you were 18, what would you be doing?

Alvin Yuan (27:05): Right. Uh, it’s hard to say, right. Because, if I was not in healthcare, probably, I think the entrepreneur spirit is always gonna be there. Uh, so for me, wherever I land is probably going to actually let me focus in that particular vertical about also being able to look for those opportunities where in life, and actually start something there. Right. Uh, I, I, I always feel like there, there needs to be a freedom for me to be able to do what I want to do without real restrictions when it comes to solving problems. So, if, if I were to start over again, it wouldn’t be any necessary, any vertical, uh, so there’s actually a lot of, a lot of opportunities to solve a lot of, you know, problems, a lot of verticals. I have a lot of startup founder, you know, peers, friends, they’re all solving great problems, you know, you know, great opportunities that they are in. And yeah. I mean, probably I would just have the same journey depending on which vertical I land in.

Kalani Scarrott (28:03): Yeah. No, you’d love to hear it. And last question, what plans or vision do you have for the next five to 10 years? Like what are you, what areas are you most curious about going forward and what are you hoping to achieve? I guess?

Alvin Yuan (28:12): Yeah. Um, since I was actually in healthcare, I, I, I really actually enjoy where I am today. Right. Uh, never really actually thought I would enjoy healthcare in a way that I am right now, because healthcare is always, you know, it’s not very exciting. It’s been there. It’s always a need, not really a want kind of thing, right. Uh, but as I’ve gone through this journey, with health metrics, I see that there’s tons of opportunities to solve a lot more problems. And, and it’s really very rewarding feeling, right. I’m looking at how you’re able to really, help, not just as an entrepreneur, but as also like, you know, a systems provider right. On, on the sense of the tech side, is, is actually very rewarding, not just for me, but for my entire team and my co-founder as well. So even for the next five, 10 years, I can see myself doing what I’m doing right now. Uh, of course, maybe at a different scale. Uh, but definitely still very much, excited about the prospect of, you know, wherever we are going to.

Kalani Scarrott (29:12): Yeah. And like you mentioned that scale, it’s so much easy to help more people, I guess.

Alvin Yuan (29:16): Yeah that’s true. That’s true.

Kalani Scarrott (29:18): Alvin, thank you so much for being on today. Anything else you wanna plug or give a shout out to?

Alvin Yuan (29:22): No, not much actually, really, really wanted to see how this entire thing turns out. Uh, you know, this is my first podcast, so yeah. Thanks for breaking the, the virginity of no, my podcast session, but really, really looking forward to, to, you know, hearing this session now.

Kalani Scarrott (29:37): Thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.

Alvin Yuan (29:39): Yeah. Thank you so much.